Coffee Chats Podcast | Business, Marketing, & Relationship Building for Women in Business

Tahjma VanBuren 00:00:00 You know what's underrated? Celebrating yourself. Whether you just signed a new client, launched something bold, or survived a week of back to back zoom calls, pouring a glass of wine should feel like a moment. And when I want that moment to mean something. I call Patricia Crawford my go to wine lady. Yes, we're fancy enough to have a wine lady here on Coffee Chats podcast. We like a good cup of coffee, but we love our glass of wine. Patricia is both wine consultant and vibe curator. She helps busy women in business choose wines that feel intentional, celebratory and easy gifts. Plus, the wine she sources gives back to causes that matter, which means every single pour has a purpose. So whether you're winding down or sending a you crushed it gift. Skip the guessing and text Patricia. I'll drop her information in the show notes. Hey, hey, welcome back to Coffee Chats podcast. I am so dang and excited to introduce y'all to Sheila Hawkins. I told you I bring the podcast information, I bring the marketing to the table, but there's a whole host of information that I don't know about business and what other people are really good at in their own specific zone of genius.

Tahjma VanBuren 00:01:31 And Sheila is our productivity queen. Okay, so I'm going to read you her bio so that you have kind of a basis of who she is. And then we're going to get into who she is, what she's about and what she's working on in her business. So Sheila Hawkins teaches women business owners how to find time and freedom using her unique system based on who they are, how they're wired, and how they work to bring out bring about transformation in their business and their lives. She also works with corporate leaders and work teams to enhance efficiency and profitability. Sheila is the author of Wielding Time Taking Back Your Personal Power to Increase Productivity. The co-author of Who's Going to Show Up? Who's going to stop us now? Excuse me? And also one of 30 experts interviewed by Michael Brecht. Hopefully, I'm saying his last name. Right. CEO of doodle for the productivity book. For 14 years, Sheila has shared her expertise in thousands with thousands of metropolitan Detroit business owners via her column in the Detroit Smart Pages, a newspaper focused on building business to business and business to community relationships.

Tahjma VanBuren 00:02:50 Thank you so much for being here.

Sheila Hawkins 00:02:53 Thank you for the invitation. Of course.

Tahjma VanBuren 00:02:56 So we know a little bit about your background so far. I want to know take us back a little bit. How did you get started with productivity?

Sheila Hawkins 00:03:09 Wow. this was years ago. Okay. I, I had just gotten laid off from a job, and at that time, the market wasn't really very good. There wasn't really very much promise of a job. And so a friend of mine said to me, well, why don't you do what you've always done? And I thought, You know. I asked her what she was talking about, and she said, for as long as she had known me, I had always organized things and people. And I thought, oh, okay. She was right. And so I started down this path to kind of look at, okay, so what does that look like for me? What does that feel like? What do I want to do? And I started out organizing, spaces, workspaces and some home spaces to, you know, to, to kind of bring that that work and family harmony together for the clients that I had.

Sheila Hawkins 00:04:07 And I found that during that productivity was the thing that just came up again and again. And I found that when I took that on, that was it. That was my sweet spot. That was it for me. And so I just I started doing more of that. and then, people just started to introduce me to people who needed that particular type of help, and it just kind of flourished from there. And so that's, you know, where I'm sitting in my sweet spot.

Tahjma VanBuren 00:04:38 What a beautiful friend to notice that aspect of you. Yeah.

Sheila Hawkins 00:04:42 So yeah, I just I didn't see, you know, sometimes, you know, everything's just over here. You know, it's in our periphery. We don't, you know, we don't see things about ourselves. We just, you know, we're just living our lives. And that was that was priceless to me. That observation was really priceless.

Tahjma VanBuren 00:05:00 Yeah. So you have gone from organizing spaces to helping people create systems for their life and their business.

Tahjma VanBuren 00:05:09 And I absolutely need other people to hear the story about you and your son, because that was so cool. It was so cool.

Sheila Hawkins 00:05:22 Yeah. That, and I have to laugh every time I talk about this or every time, you know, I think about it because it was just one of those things. It's like, you know, it it was something that that just was like, given to me. Right? And so the story goes, my son was then about five, and he is, was and still is a very multi dimensional individual. He would do 3 or 4 different things at one time and would drive me nuts because I am exactly the opposite way. And so I, he would be doing all these things in his room, would just end up being a mess. And at the end of the week on a Saturday, that one day where I just want to kind of kick back and relax, we would fight, you know, he'd have to, you know, for cleaning his room because it was just a mess, because everything was everywhere.

Sheila Hawkins 00:06:24 Although he had a place for everything, everything was not in its place. And I realized that the things that we were using to organize his space, they had words. The labels had words on the bins. And I thought, okay, this is not working. And then I stepped on a diecast car Scar in my bare feet. And that was one of the most unpleasant experiences that I have ever had in my life, ever. It just that was that I walked around with painfully, with a bruise in the arch of my foot for a couple of weeks at least. And my foot was my my the my instep, not my instep. My, my arch was purple, about as purple as a shirt.

Tahjma VanBuren 00:07:21 Wow.

Sheila Hawkins 00:07:23 And it just, you know, it gotten to the point where I just it was like, I have had it up to here. I can't do this. Not in my own house. I can't do this. So what is it going to take for me to? Because initially I thought, okay, maybe he's not getting it, but that wasn't the case.

Sheila Hawkins 00:07:42 He was always smart. He was always, you know, he always had his wits about him. He knew he understood. But whatever it was, what I had in place just wasn't appealing to him. So I thought, okay, those labels, they've got the words on them. And he could read, but it didn't appeal to him. And that's what I saw. I thought, okay, I've done everything right. It's organized. It's this way, it's that way, and he's not getting it. And then I thought about him and who he is, and I realized that, okay, he's this creative person. He's this artist, and he's not wired like I am. He's not going to understand things necessarily as I explained them to him or as I set them up for him. And so I decided to leave the words, but to add pictures to the labels. And it worked. It worked. Stepping on a diecast car brought the solution. But moreover, what it did for me was that I realized that okay, if that little tweak, that one small thing, change the behavior of a five year old so that I don't have to step on another diecast car or dinosaur or whatever, a Lego or whatever it is in my bare feet.

Sheila Hawkins 00:09:07 If I if that made that shift for him, then wouldn't it make the same shift then for my clients? And I thought about that for a while and I thought you know I'm gonna, I'm going to test this out. So I had a couple of volunteer guinea pigs and we just, you know, we went through the motions like I would normally do, but then I, I added an aspect where I talked to them about who they are, you know, what's working for them, what's not working for them as far as, their experience like moving through that to do list. Like what? What is it inside of that action or those actions that's just not working for you? And that led me down a path to start looking at personality and, you know, getting really a lot deeper into the layers of who we are because who we are, you know, is multifaceted. And I started looking at all those facets and discovered a way to have people go through a process. And now the process is a quiz.

Sheila Hawkins 00:10:20 But to go through a process, then to discover who they are in their relationship with time. And that gave me the clues that I needed to know what kinds of things were going to work for them and what not to even bother with, because that's not who they are. And it's worked for 25 years.

Tahjma VanBuren 00:10:39 Wow. So when you're you're talking about personality or are you speaking like him was a mBTI and like Strengthsfinder test or or is this something that you created on your own?

Sheila Hawkins 00:10:52 It's something that I've created on my own. I looked at some of those things to kind of get a sense and a feel for, you know, what was out there and, and how those things, like the methods that they use to, to delve into, into people. And I one day I decided, okay, that's everybody else's stuff. I'm not going to take that. I'm not going to, you know, bring that into what I do. So I created my own and I started with four different personas productivity, personas, as I call them.

Sheila Hawkins 00:11:27 And I built them out based upon what I saw with my clients and based upon what I learned about personalities and whatnot. So I had people who I said, you know, volunteered to to go through the motions with me, and it just kind of grew. Grew and build, built from there. And so over the course of time, I've discovered that there are a few more personas. So I've added them to the mix and I was able to create the quiz. And I haven't yet. Not yet. Not once had someone tell me they took this quiz. It's like a 62nd quiz. Wow. And not come up with, yeah, not come up with something that, you know, where they say, okay, no, that's that's not me or, you know, this doesn't feel right. Not once. And so I was I was kind of shocked. I will I'll admit that I was shocked. But for all this time, I've been using it, and then I started sharing it.

Sheila Hawkins 00:12:30 Maybe I want to say, what was it somewhere around 2012, 2014? Somewhere in there. And, and outside of, say, private clients started sharing it and, you know, put the quiz out there for people to take and to start to discover, you know, who they are. And that is that's like the place that I start with people, because that tells me what I need to know foundationally. And then we just build on that.

Tahjma VanBuren 00:13:04 Wow. I'm stuck on the 60s because I'm thinking back to I am a personality test kind of. Or at least I used to be a personality test kind of person like mBTI. I knew it Strengthsfinder was all up and down, even down to. So I studied human behavior in school, down to the attachment styles. I said, okay, I know everything about myself, but that took a long time. You had to sit a solid Saturday evening. You had to be willing to sit down and dive into who you truly are. Right. But in 60s.

Tahjma VanBuren 00:13:41 That's impressive.

Sheila Hawkins 00:13:43 Yeah, that's that's what I had kind of narrowed it down to. And it really I took kind of like I want to say an abstract way about it, because I wanted people to feel comfortable because I find that when people come to me a lot of times, you know, there's a lot of frustration. You know, sometimes there's a lot of angst. They're frustrated. They're disappointed. You know, they they can't get things done. They've they've tried all the things and then some. And they still don't have any relief. And so when they come to me, it's, it's like, okay, I'm going to try this. I've tried everything else. And so I wanted people to feel comfortable. I didn't want to to take them through this, this deep, long process. Now we can, you know, we go deeper, of course, when I work with people. but that's the starting point. So I had the idea of a quiz, and the questions aren't anything like what you would see on, you know, any of those assessments that you, you know, that you mentioned.

Sheila Hawkins 00:14:50 And I did that on purpose because I wanted people to just just to be able to relax and be themselves. And that's what those the questions that it poses, it tells me about them and who they are. Not necessarily, you know, anything, say, you know, too scientific, but I can take the answers that they give me and I can get to the scientific. I can get to the psychology behind it all. And it works for them because it's fun. It's it's carefree. It kind of takes a load off. And I give I think it gives them quick wins in the moment. Right. You take this quiz, you find out who you are in your relationship with time, and right then you start to understand, oh, Okay. That's why I have this challenge or, you know. Oh, okay. Yeah, I do have those strengths. I am really good at that because that is a lot. That's what I find that a lot of people miss. We're so focused on what's wrong.

Sheila Hawkins 00:15:53 That's human nature, right? But we forget who we are. We forget about what we bring to the table. We forget about what we're good at, especially when we're not. We're not achieving, you know, when we're when we're not producing. Right. And so I just wanted to take that load off. And then like I said, the, you know, I can get to the scientific, I can get to the psychological stuff. And, you know, sometimes we get to some emotional stuff too. Yeah. Because of the things that people hold on to and the things that we, we carry around that we haven't dealt with, it all shows up. It all shows up in our days.

Tahjma VanBuren 00:16:35 Wow. So while you were talking, I was thinking some of the phrasing that you mentioned made me think about how, as of late, there is a whole lot of studies that are coming out about middle aged women, specifically in the United States, that are increasingly being diagnosed with ADHD. And a lot of that sounds very parallel to some of the symptoms that you were just talking about.

Tahjma VanBuren 00:17:01 Now, I don't know about you. I'm no doctor. I don't know the medical aspect of it behind it. So I don't want to say tell people that they are or not. But I'm seeing a parallel between sometimes you're you're simply overwhelmed or you just don't have a system around. Or at least that's what it sounds like. What would you say to that?

Sheila Hawkins 00:17:21 Yeah, I would say so too. And I, you know, because. Not just. And it's not just that you don't have a system, right. It's it's that you don't have the right system. You don't have what works for you, right? Our tools, our strategies, our processes, the apps we use, anything that we use to support us, to shore us up. They have to fit us like our favorite pair of shoes. You know, and as women, you and I both know what happens when your shoes don't fit, right. That's painful. And so it's I don't think it's just about that. I think too that how can I say this? We as women, number one, we've got all the things on our shoulders, right? We wear all the hats, but we live in a society, especially here in the United States, other other countries as well, but especially here in the United States.

Sheila Hawkins 00:18:29 Society is really, really focused on Producing really, really focused on work. And you know, if you're not achieving X amount of whatever by X amount of time, then there's something wrong. And a lot of times it's just it's it's the overwhelm conversation. It's that you don't have the things in place to, to help you, to help you do what you need to do. But a lot of times it's that you don't. You don't have what you need that matches you, that meets you where you are. And I think that that's that is one of the biggest, biggest, Oh, wow. I don't even know what to call it. It's not a challenge, but it's one of the biggest things that hold people back, not having what we need at our disposal. So instead trying to fit ourselves. Contort. Really? Because fit isn't the right word. Contort ourselves into This, this box and into this structure. Right. This this. This thing. The construct, if you will, that society presents to us like, okay, here's how you work.

Sheila Hawkins 00:19:45 This is what work looks like. This is what you must do. And that's not at all how we're meant to work, but it's what society dictates. It's what we learn. Not that we're taught. We just kind of learn it through osmosis. Right through. You know, as we grow up, you know, we start to go to school, we go to college, some of us, and we, you know, we get into the workforce, we start to see these things and we get into that, those rhythms. But that rhythm doesn't match how we're wired. And so now I think with these studies, because I have I have seen the same thing. I think now we're in a place where some of us are starting to see that? Okay. Maybe there's something, you know, maybe there's something going on, right? Because these, you know, these round pegs don't fit the square holes. And I think, too, that sometimes we're quick to label even, you know, medical professionals are quick to label us like my son when he was young, about that same age, about five.

Sheila Hawkins 00:20:59 He could not sit still in school. Okay. He could not, like, take in instruction, say like, you know, here, do this, this and this. He couldn't take it in. He might remember one of, say, three things you said to him. And so administrators automatically, oh, he's he's ADHD, he's got a ADHD. And I had to step in and advocate and put my foot down because you aren't that kind of professional. How dare you! And I'll get the information I need from a professional. And when I did, that took him through the testing with, you know, a really reputable, highly recommended professional. He didn't have ADHD. He had the symptoms thereof. Okay. And so for him, that made a big difference. And I think sometimes when you, you know, you look at these studies, it's not necessarily that, okay, yes you have it but that you have symptoms thereof. So the way that you operate looks like that. But that's not necessarily what it is.

Sheila Hawkins 00:22:07 But we, you know, we we have to put labels on stuff. Right. We can't just let things be what they be. We have to put labels on things. And so, you know, the labels get placed. But I think it goes a little bit deeper than that. And I won't doubt that. Yes. You know, there, you know, that some of the, some of it is accurate, but I have to say too that. Okay, but wait a minute. You know, let's really look at this person. Let's look at the individual, let's look at different scenarios. because we're all we all do better and then not so well in certain environments dealing with certain things. So I think it really it has to boil down to a really very, focused, personal look at who you are and your circumstances.

Tahjma VanBuren 00:23:00 Wow. I'm glad that he was there or you were there for him to advocate.

Sheila Hawkins 00:23:04 Yeah. Me too. Me too. Because I saw that. That happens a lot.

Sheila Hawkins 00:23:09 It happens a lot. Too much. Yeah.

Tahjma VanBuren 00:23:10 Too much. And I'm sure that for women business owners, we are told that specifically in business, our business should look like something very specific. Or our day to day should look like something very specific.

Sheila Hawkins 00:23:22 Yeah.

Tahjma VanBuren 00:23:23 Just kind of like one of the main reasons that I started this business is for me not to have to play by someone else.

Sheila Hawkins 00:23:30 Yes. Right.

Tahjma VanBuren 00:23:33 So I'm glad that you are really diving into that. So you went from physical to the more the emotional, psychological versions of organizing systems for people.

Sheila Hawkins 00:23:44 What did that.

Tahjma VanBuren 00:23:45 Transition look like? I know you tested a couple of different people, but how did that change the work that you were already doing with people?

Sheila Hawkins 00:23:53 I think for me, like looking at like that was that was a really big discovery for me. Like, wow, okay, I can work with this. That was my reaction to it. And, you know, a little bit of like, oh, how do I do this? But still just always going back to that person and placing them like front and center, like, okay, spotlight's on you.

Sheila Hawkins 00:24:17 This is all about you. Because that's what productivity is. It's personal. It's not contorting yourself into this box and using what everybody else uses. It's about really looking at things and people on that really deeper layer, layer or level. And so I started there and then started to build a framework that I started to use, like, okay, if you're in the center, then here are the things that we need to look at right? These are the things that you need to support you. And it just kind of came together piece by piece with some trial and error. but it was all good. And so I was able to take all those facets that we are and start to look at. Okay. So you know, what kind of tools work for which productivity persona. And then knowing what those, you know, the common tools are and then some not so, you know, common off the beaten path tools and, you know, starting to cultivate a list, so that I could have this database of things readily available.

Sheila Hawkins 00:25:30 And then it was about looking at habits that people needed to create. And, you know, having them create those boundaries. And, you know, all these different pieces started to come together and formed the foundation that they needed. But it also formed the framework for me to to work for, to work from with people. So I have more. I ended up with more of a focused, intentional way through that, you know, through the testing and the trial and error that I still use today. I've tweaked it a little bit over the years, but here I am all these years later, and it still works that same way. So I think it's always because I'm always working around the person. I'm always putting you at the center and building out what you need. So if you change, if you shift, then okay, we can go back to the drawing board. But we use that same framework, we use that same process. And sometimes you have to start all over from scratch depending upon what changes.

Sheila Hawkins 00:26:39 But other times you can go back so far and then start to pull things together, like maybe you add a person or a couple of people to your team. So okay, we can go back to this point here and build out from there what we need based on that framework. And so I think that's why it's always worked because the framework works and it's built around people. and I think what I do is put people at the center and make people the focus when it comes to productivity versus the producing. And there's there's a big difference when you shift your focus to the people, because the people, people are what's important, you know? not necessarily, the process or the producing. It's the people.

Tahjma VanBuren 00:27:25 Yes. Good. If I hear KPIs one more time.

Sheila Hawkins 00:27:30 Oh, gosh. Yes.

Tahjma VanBuren 00:27:33 You think people can change their their type, right? So when you said that, I started thinking about this is kind of tingling my brain a little bit. This conversation. So it's perfect. Okay. I'm thinking about how someone it's something dramatic has to happen, but someone can go from like an anxious attachment style to a secure attachment style.

Tahjma VanBuren 00:27:57 Does something dramatic have to happen in some of the archetypes that you have? like how does that how does someone change that. Have you seen that in a.

Sheila Hawkins 00:28:06 That's a real. Oh God. I have seen that. And actually I've experienced that.

Tahjma VanBuren 00:28:10 Oh, wow.

Sheila Hawkins 00:28:12 Yeah. so I've seen it in And let's say, you know, women who like, maybe when I create, you know, work with them, create their system. They're single. they've just started their business, or maybe they've been in it, you know, for, you know, 3 to 5 years and whatnot. And maybe when they get to the point of, okay, I can finally add a VA and I can add a marketing person, right? Or, I've outgrown this tool because now I have this use or I have this need rather, and this tool doesn't provide for me what I need. So those are, you know, like, places that like times when you can come back to certain places you don't have to go all the way back to the drawing board, but you can come back and say, okay, if this tool isn't serving you, what features do you need? And then what's out there that fits you based on tool type and your productivity persona, what fits you? And we start to look at those and do some testing, Thing, some trying on of things and to see what fits.

Sheila Hawkins 00:29:20 And the same thing comes with expanding, your team. Okay. Now that you have this team, do you take this tool and expand on it? Like do you add more features, like maybe you're using something like Monday and you haven't used the marketing, tools or, you know, pieces inside of it, but now you you can or you have to because it's more than just you. So okay, you click on that, you know, you start using that, so to speak, and that in those ways, I think it becomes really, you know, adaptable or, you know, like I've had women have children who and, you know, then, you know, like it all. Just everything changes then because you have this little person that you are now responsible for and you're running your business and you're running your household. So we sometimes have to go back a little bit further and, you know, days have to look different, right? Because there has to be time now for that child.

Sheila Hawkins 00:30:23 There has to be the time for, you know, as a child grows older, you know, homework and, and all those fun things. And so I've seen it in, in those ways and it all goes back again to the persona. And in some cases, your persona can change. I had actually a friend who we knew who she was, persona wise. And then something shifted in her life, health wise. And when she finally was ready to go back to work, while she just it was it was like, almost kind of sort of the difference between night and day. But she knew because she knows me really well. She knows my work, she understands it. So she knew she's like hey I'm slipping. And so, you know, can we can we talk about this? And that's we found out that she went from one persona to another and, you know, but with the traits that she has, the strengths and the challenges, she was still able to, you know, we're still able to work something out to where okay, now, you know, things work for her.

Sheila Hawkins 00:31:36 So she's getting used to that and building that muscle. And, you know, those are the ways that I've seen it, but I've also experienced it. about what has it been now? seven years ago, maybe I was in a really bad car accident and I suffered a TBI, a traumatic brain injury, and my executive function just wasn't my executive function anymore. And I actually wondered, okay, am I going to be able to do what I do. Am I even going to be able to do any kind of work right? At the point that I think I'm ready to go back into this. And so I started when I, when I wanted to come back to work, I started trying to do things the way that I would normally do them. And it just it didn't work because the focus wasn't there, the concentration wasn't there, the mental energy wasn't there. And then I had short term memory issues too, so that nothing was serving me as I was used to it, serving me and working past the anger and all the emotion that came with that, I realized, okay.

Sheila Hawkins 00:32:56 Physician, heal thyself, so to speak. I had to do for myself what I do for my clients. and so I went back to my own drawing board and looked at my productivity any persona and I knew, okay, that is not who I am. I knew exactly which persona I was, but I made myself take the quiz and that's who I was. And so I had to start finding new ways to do things. That was the workaround for the damage that had been done, you know, find different ways to do things. So work arounds for those until everything was rebuilt, so to speak. And then I started to shift to using things that works for that different productivity persona. And I was able to to find what worked for me and to find my footing again, to be able to, you know, to start working again, because that was like it was the very first thing that I wanted to do, despite how bad things were for me, because I love what I do and I did not want to give it up.

Sheila Hawkins 00:34:03 And I found that doing that has helped me. And over the course of maybe the last year and a half or so I've been able to work. I'm slowly working myself back, and I see the shift from where I went to and working my way back to my original self when it comes to productivity and my original persona. But there's still some tweaking to do. But I, in doing what I am using, what I use for my clients, for myself, that made a big difference. For me. It was the difference between not being able to work or being so frustrated I couldn't work and couldn't get things done to really saying, okay, forget about it, you know, let's do this and you know how and using for myself what I use for my clients.

Tahjma VanBuren 00:34:57 Wow, what a testament. That's so cool.

Sheila Hawkins 00:35:02 Yeah, yeah. It just it was like, wow. Okay. I think I've really come full circle with this, you know, I've been doing this all this time, and I never really thought about how I do things myself, because it's second nature to me.

Sheila Hawkins 00:35:18 Like the things that I do, I can do, I can do a lot of things basically in my sleep, you know, I can break down a project scope in no time flat. And, you know, things like that come naturally to me. Yeah. And so, you know, to just kind of be stifled like that, that was, that was concerning. But to know that what I've created for other people worked for me and it really, you know, made the difference, again, between me being able to work and not. So that was huge for me.

Tahjma VanBuren 00:35:56 Which is awesome because I know you are really working towards going, wanting to go back to work work first, but really it sounds like this influences somebody's life, even outside of work and day to day. Oh, yeah. Because we're hopefully we're we're living to what is the phrase not we're, we're working to live rather than living to work.

Sheila Hawkins 00:36:19 Yes, yes. And I think you I see a lot of people talk about, lifestyle and, but what I also see is that people are people aren't.

Sheila Hawkins 00:36:35 It's like their focus. The focus is outside of themselves. And when we bring the focus in here and we focus on us, that makes the difference. And so but a lot of people are they're, they're, they're living to work and that's that's not how, that's not how anyway, in my opinion, that's not how life is meant to be lived. You know, like, yeah, you know, you gotta work. You know, if you're, you know, an everyday, you know, person, so to speak, you have to work to some extent it looks different for different people, but I think, there's there's a lot of that. And that I think comes from the conditioning that we're exposed to. From a very early age. It's ingrained in us.

Tahjma VanBuren 00:37:18 Yeah. So what do you mean by lifestyle? People are looking more so outside of themselves. My assumption, at least, has been when I first made the transition to full time working for myself, it was really hard for me to understand that I'm not just the the order taker, if you will.

Tahjma VanBuren 00:37:38 I have to go and kind of facilitate and create the business and create the life around that, which for a considerable amount of time up until recently, to be quite frank, it was me creating my life to fit the business rather than the other way around.

Sheila Hawkins 00:37:57 Yeah. And that that was what I mean by, you know, the lifestyle, like looking out here. Like, not necessarily creating from in here, but looking out here and creating from there. And I think a lot of times we have things backwards because of that conditioning. We have things backwards and we put very little focus on ourselves. Right. We're even taught to some extent that thinking about ourselves, making time for ourselves, that those things are selfish and they're not they're not at all selfish, you know, because you can't take care of anything or anybody else until you take care of yourself. But I see that that's that's what people do. You know, we're focused on the business, we're focused on work, and we're making that the center of our attention when we should be looking at the work and adapting work to the lifestyle that we want to live or that we do live.

Sheila Hawkins 00:39:02 Yeah. Instead of letting work take. You know, take the, the the lead, so to speak.

Tahjma VanBuren 00:39:08 Yes. I truly had to lean into. I am not a 5 a.m. Gurley.

Sheila Hawkins 00:39:15 yes. No I yeah there's that. Yeah. And you know I think too you know 5 a.m. I think a lot of times it's, there's this assumption that you have to be that 5 a.m. girly if you want to succeed. And that is not the case. That isn't you. You could really short circuit yourself trying to be a 5 a.m. girly, right?

Tahjma VanBuren 00:39:49 100%. Been there, done that. Yes. So yeah you we we went through your, your physical you helping people with systems from the physical aspect. We moved into their personality, their specific persona. What does your business look like now, these days?

Sheila Hawkins 00:40:10 These days, and I had to reinvent that to, because I found that initially, when I came right back to work, I didn't have the mental agility to go like a full day.

Sheila Hawkins 00:40:24 getting better. So nowadays, it looks more like having different, programs available that people that are standalone so people can, you know, can purchase those, get into those and, and work at their own pace and, you know, having other things available to, you know, just so people can kind of get an introduction, so to speak, to who I am and, and what it's like, you know, what my what my approach to productivity is having those things available that, you know, I don't have to be there for. And then, you know, maintaining my Facebook group so that I can interact with people there, you know, deliver things there as well, and then placing my focus more so on group work and, a higher ticket, like one on one, you know, one on word work. So we go a bit deeper. The one and what the one on one is there and that's for a longer time. And that kind of it kind of helped me to.

Sheila Hawkins 00:41:33 In a not necessarily slow down, but to shift the rhythm at which I was working, because I really love the the energy and the synergy when I work with people and just, you know, when I talk with people I love that I just that that makes my day every day that I get a chance to interact with people like that. And there's a part of me that really misses having the amount of that that I, you know, that I had. But the way that I'm working now works for me, and I'm finding that it works for the clients that I'm taking on currently, too. So, you know, it it worked itself out, so to speak. So instead of, you know, the, the all the live events and the one on ones, it's more standalone group work and the more intimate one on, one on one work.

Tahjma VanBuren 00:42:26 I like that, that's good. It seems like it's an easy flow for you, and it's helpful for the your end user as well. Because some people are looking for they want to be able to work one on one with people, similar to kind of what a therapist does.

Tahjma VanBuren 00:42:41 People want to be able to kind of create community around the issue that they're looking to solve with the option of, no, I need I need eye contact only on me for this moment.

Sheila Hawkins 00:42:53 Right. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

Tahjma VanBuren 00:42:56 Which I love that you are working your way against hustle culture, if you will. That seems.

Speaker 3 00:43:01 To be the thing that.

Tahjma VanBuren 00:43:03 Right now I think it's kind of trailing out slightly. Just a little.

Speaker 3 00:43:06 Bit.

Sheila Hawkins 00:43:07 I hope so, yeah. Because that just, you know, it's there's so many drawbacks to that. besides burning yourself out. Right. I just, I think that if it is shifting, if it is, you know, if people are getting away from that, I know the people who are in my circles are talking about. No, we don't do that. Yeah. But, you know, if if, you know, we all are as a whole are starting to do that, I think that's awesome because, you know, we we tend to focus on work, work, work, work, work, not on the self.

Sheila Hawkins 00:43:45 Right. And we tend to focus on the doing of things. And you know, what there is to do and our to do list. And it's like, okay, but wait a minute. I've always told my clients like your to do list is great, we can work with that. But you have to think about your to be list. Who is it that you need to be to do those things? And furthermore, who is it that you need to be to get where you want to get? Like, what's your ultimate goal? It's not that to do list. Like yeah, knocking it out takes you forward. But what's the ultimate goal. You know, what are you really working toward? And I think that that hustle culture is something that just kind of keeps you going and going and going and you you lose track of what that ultimate goal is, right? You lose track of the big picture. You can't even see the big picture anymore because you're so focused on, okay, what do I need to do next? You know, we lose sight of where we're going.

Tahjma VanBuren 00:44:41 Yeah, I remember I think I said this in a different episode. I went to the doctor's office one time, and the they did their random, you know, the general questions that they always ask. Oh, the weight check in the high, all the things. And then the lady sat down and she said, okay, sir, are you still drinking five cups of coffee a day?

Speaker 3 00:45:03 Said I. Oh, wow.

Tahjma VanBuren 00:45:06 Excuse me. That's crazy. And it was all.

Speaker 3 00:45:12 Steeped in.

Tahjma VanBuren 00:45:13 Me. And at that time I was drinking. I was probably not. Probably. I definitely my day existed on. I got a cup of coffee and the coffees were my breaks throughout the day. And then I would eat an actual meal if it was like a lunch or a eating meal. What? A working lunch or something like that at work? Or if not that, then I'm eating at home. Once, once the day is over. So that was fueling everything that I was doing, and so much of the opposite of the kind of people that I was looking to serve and am currently looking to serve now, because again, we need to.

Tahjma VanBuren 00:45:53 We're looking to impact people in their lives, so we need to be able to do that for ourselves first.

Speaker 3 00:45:58 And. Exactly, exactly.

Sheila Hawkins 00:46:00 Yeah. It's got to start with us.

Tahjma VanBuren 00:46:02 Yes. What a what a crazy time. We've moved on from that.

Speaker 3 00:46:07 Yes.

Tahjma VanBuren 00:46:09 So I like the idea of being what are you doing? Is there something that you're doing or like a practice that you have from day to day that really sets you into that reminder to truly just be.

Sheila Hawkins 00:46:23 you know, I, I have found here lately that I need more than one, say, check in with myself during the course of the day. So I start my day with a meditation and that kind of, you know, it. I become aware of not just what's going on with my body, because that's still important right now with the injuries and whatnot. But it it kind of gives me it helps me to gauge what's really going on with me inside. And at that point, I might decide, okay, I'm not going to do the things that I, you know, said I was going to do today.

Sheila Hawkins 00:47:04 Those things are going to get moved because I'm not I'm not in the space within myself to be able to do that. And so there are some days where I just choose to just be I don't do anything. And then there are days where there's something to do, and I don't necessarily have what I need to do it. So I kind of gauge that. And then I have I have to ask myself sometimes okay, so what's it going to take. Who do I have to be. What shoes do I have to step into? What hat do I have to put on? What attitude? What perspective or mindset do I have to have to get that done instead of moving it? Because sometimes it just doesn't make sense. Sometimes it doesn't help to move things forward. And so that, you know, in the morning that's what happens for me. And then I try to do an afternoon check in and then an evening check in to just kind of see, like, okay, where am I at, you know, how am I feeling? you know, how did my day go, that kind of thing.

Sheila Hawkins 00:48:10 and just kind of, especially when I start to feel, Angst or, you know, anxious about something or, you know, maybe because something, you know, in my personal life has happened or something, you know, in the world has happened, I have to kind of, you know, come back in here and, and just, you know, kind of gauge where I am and, and realize that, okay, you know, why are you feeling what are you what you're feeling or, you know, why is it stopping you and just kind of, you know, that that self check in, and just to, to use meditation and, you know, different techniques that I've learned over the years just to kind of bring myself back on square so that I can function, you know.

Tahjma VanBuren 00:48:58 Yes.

Sheila Hawkins 00:48:59 And I think that's what we, we don't necessarily do enough of because we aren't taught to, you know, we don't learn to do that. You know, we're not taught that. But I find that it it works wonders for me so that my days are more, they flow better, there's more flow in them, and I get more done that way.

Sheila Hawkins 00:49:22 Yeah.

Tahjma VanBuren 00:49:23 That's good. Almost like, I've had to mimic a version of what you just described. However, I have to force myself to stop because something that I have on my end is, I think, oh, I can do all the things I'm gonna. I'm gonna keep doing all the things I have the I have the energy right now. This is this is good. but sometimes just because you have the energy doesn't mean that that's something you should be doing right.

Sheila Hawkins 00:49:51 So that that's a very, very good point. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

Tahjma VanBuren 00:49:58 Yeah.

Sheila Hawkins 00:49:59 Yeah.

Tahjma VanBuren 00:50:01 The people who listen to this podcast are typically women business owners. What's something that you want them to walk away from this episode. From what you do. All of your expertise that you dropped for us today before we get into our faith note.

Sheila Hawkins 00:50:19 I think. The one thing that I would say is that. I would say place your focus on yourself and not necessarily on what there is to do, because there's always going to be something to do.

Sheila Hawkins 00:50:39 You know, place your focus on yourself and take care of yourself and so that you're not pouring or trying to pour from, you know, from an empty cup and start to, you know, to shift how you see things and. Put yourself first and put yourself at the center. You know, if you are struggling to get things done, start to put yourself at the center and let everything else form around you. You know, so that you are the priority and put the focus on you versus on the producing.

Tahjma VanBuren 00:51:16 Very good.

Sheila Hawkins 00:51:17 I think that that makes a big, big difference and it's a great place to start.

Tahjma VanBuren 00:51:21 Yes. That makes me think of how everyone's talking about boundaries and creating space for yourself like you mentioned. And really boundaries are really for yourself so that you know when and when to lean out. Yes. so I love that. That's so good. And I know somebody just heard you say that, and they're kind of like, focus on myself. I don't know how to do that.

Tahjma VanBuren 00:51:47 I keep hearing that.

Sheila Hawkins 00:51:49 Yeah.

Tahjma VanBuren 00:51:50 And I, as a person who has said that and as a person who has days where I don't understand how to make that happen, I get it. It happens when you truly put yourself in the position to listen to the wisdom that other people are giving you, like Sheila Hawkins one but then two, you truly just sit down and listen to your own in your silence. One of the things that my mom often tells me is just wake up and don't say anything. Even if you have to cough, just try to cough quietly so that you can hear what's going on.

Sheila Hawkins 00:52:28 Right? Yeah. Just listen, just listen.

Tahjma VanBuren 00:52:31 Yeah, that might have been your faith note. What's your. What's your fake note for our listeners?

Sheila Hawkins 00:52:40 Oh, other than that I would say, that, you know, we, we create our own realities. And I think since that's true, we really have to just we have to believe in ourselves and we have to believe that we're capable and we really are.

Sheila Hawkins 00:53:03 I think for me, I think anything is possible. So I guess that's my faith. Note anything is possible because when you have that possibility, you create that possibility. You, you, you are given the wherewithal. You have everything that you need at your disposal. You just you might have to dig deep to find it and to bring it out and to use it. But we have to believe that we have that, and we have to trust that, you know, we have that ability within ourselves. And we have to remember, too, that no matter how you see God, there is still something that is greater than ourselves, right? We, you know, there there is a higher power, and we have the capacity to grow and to create and to change, even when things seem to be stacked against us. We have that power. So we have to believe in ourselves that, okay, that powers there, you know, and to look, to find it, to use it.

Tahjma VanBuren 00:54:03 You've been listening to Coffee Chats podcast from IMO's Management, a marketing agency serving small business owners. This episode was written, hosted, produced and edited by me, Tajima Van Buren. If you want to learn more about anything you heard on the show, schedule your coffee chat using the link in the description. We'll talk all things podcasting and how to use it as a true marketing strategy for you and your small business. Go to Imas management. Com for further information. Thank you to our listeners for supporting the show by.